In this episode of Talking China Business, host Ting Zhang compared notes with Pascall Coppens, an international keynote speaker, recognised China expert, best-selling author, and YouTube influencer, on the dramatic changes in China’s business environment, technology landscape, emerging trends, and shifting geopolitical backdrops. They delved deep into the relationship between China and the EU, the UK and the US, past and present, and looked into the future.

Pascal Coppens is an international keynote speaker, recognised China expert, best-selling author, and YouTube influencer. His connection with China spans over three decades, beginning with Chinese studies in 1988. He lived in China for a significant period from 1996 to 2017, primarily in Shanghai and Beijing, gaining extensive experience as a “diehard China entrepreneur” who has employed, partnered with, and competed against numerous Chinese innovators in the technology sector. The author of China’s New Normal (2019) and Can We Trust China (2022) believes that a nuanced view of China is essential for the West to take advantage of the opportunities that China’s transition offers.

Starting with the current US-China tariff war and its global effect, Ting and Pascal looked into the evolution of China’s relations with Europe, and the UK, shared their observations on the significant changes they witnessed in China over the years, the surprising lack of understanding about China in Europe, and the current focus on the uncertainties of the US-China trade war within China itself.

Here are the main takeaways of their conversation:

Shifts in the dynamics of Europe’s relationship with China, particularly in business, trade, and technology.

Pascal has observed a significant increase in interest in China over the past three months, both in media coverage and among business leaders. This shift is partly due to Trump’s policies but also China’s growing confidence in its future, especially following the Two Sessions. Internally, China’s advancements in innovation and technology—such as electric vehicles and biomanufacturing—are making European industries realise they are no longer leading but catching up.

Ting noted that Europe seems more open to Chinese culture and business engagement, which is evident in the increasing presence of Chinese-language signs in airports and public spaces. Pascal emphasised that European businesses are waking up to the fact that simply trying to contain China’s technological rise isn’t working. The EU, in particular, is striving for more autonomy, balancing its dependencies on both China and the U.S.

Another big change, according to Pascal, is that global trends are now emerging from China, rather than traditional hubs like Silicon Valley, London, or Brussels. He emphasises that this shift, with trends now “coming out of Beijing, Shanghai, or China in general,” is a significant change that Europe is starting to recognise.

Chinese companies, once focused solely on their domestic market, are now expanding globally, offering competitive products and services that resonate with international consumers.

Their observations suggest a shifting mindset and attitudes at all levels in Europe—one that acknowledges China’s role as a leader in innovation and market trends while navigating its complex relationship with both China and the U.S. The need for strategic collaboration and adaptation to China’s rapid developments will likely shape future business decisions across the continent.

‘So, that reflection of suddenly understanding that we cannot do everything on our own, but at the same time we still have a lot of strengths that the world needs, is a big change from before where we were kind of like accepting that Washington was setting the rules and we would accept that and deal with it in the same way specifically versus China. ’

Do they still need each other as before?

Beyond China becoming a source of global trends, Ting and Pascal exchanged views on another point: does China still need Europe or the UK for technology the way it did before, now that Europe has started looking at China more as a supply chain than just a market? 

Pascal: it’s Yes and No. It’s a complex and mutually beneficial relationship between Europe, the US and China in terms of technology, despite the rise of China. The bigger question is how China and Europe both benefit, especially with shared goals like tackling climate change and navigating the current global landscape where US relationships are a bit strained.

He argued that both the US and China still need Europe for technology, just as Europe needs them. This is because Europe often generates the foundational ideas and early-stage innovation, while the US and China excel at scaling these innovations.

According to his view, Europe tends to underestimate how positively China views its technological strengths, particularly in areas like quality, efficiency, deep research, and education, especially given the current geopolitical tensions.

Another point is the opportunities and innovation that China brings to Europe, which go way beyond dependency. Yet the potential remains untapped. He noted, too, that Asia, with China at its centre, is a crucial growth market for the world, implying that collaboration with China provides access to this market.

‘New China’, changes, problems, and ‘90s once more  

Pascal elaborated on the core ideas of his book, “Can We Trust China?”, which challenges Western perspectives by emphasising the need to understand China’s own viewpoint and the decentralised nature of its innovation driven by its entrepreneurial population. He contrasts this “bottom-up” view with the traditional “top-down” understanding.  

From the book, Ting and Pascal switched to the practical challenges and shifts in doing business in China today. 

Pascal highlighted how the regulatory environment has moved from a lack of rules to an abundance, making it as complex as Europe in some ways. He noted the increased competitiveness of local Chinese companies and the evolving expectations of the Chinese workforce. This has led some newer and smaller European companies to question the incentive of entering such a complex market, especially when coupled with political risks. 

However, he also pointed out that companies recognising the “new China”—focused on aspiration, innovation, and customer experience—still see significant opportunities, particularly in catering to the increasingly sophisticated Chinese consumer market. Similar to the days in the 1990s, where those with a long-term vision and willingness to take risks are the ones likely to succeed.

Ting sees a dynamic but still promising environment in China, requiring adaptation and a nuanced understanding of the evolving market and talent pool. The evolving manufacturing landscape in China presents considerable opportunities, particularly in its transition from a focus on basic manufacturing to smart products.  

She highlights that for companies with the right market model and strategy, establishing a presence in China, and utilising local talent and management, can be highly successful, especially when the Chinese market won’t accept the price of imported goods. 

Furthermore, the availability of experienced and Western-educated professionals in the region offers a valuable resource for European and UK companies looking to expand their operations in China.

‘Fitness centre’, going global, ‘middle champions’

On the current wave of Chinese companies ‘Going Global’, Ting pointed at the more strategic investment approach this time around, particularly in acquiring European distribution networks and manufacturing capabilities amid tariff concerns. She also highlighted China’s growing role as a “fitness centre” for businesses, arguing that companies must engage with China to stay competitive. 

Pasco agreed, dismissing the notion that China’s expansion is a reaction to economic struggles or trade wars. Instead, he attributed it to the confidence Chinese companies have gained by outperforming global competitors at home, making international expansion a logical next step.

He further explains that Chinese companies are now using refined strategies, collaborating with global experts to ensure sustainable growth. Drawing on lessons of the other Chinese companies expanding abroad, today’s larger Chinese firms are strengthening supply chain connections in Europe and the UK, which remains an attractive market due to consumer demand for quality, and this trend includes not only major brands but also mid-sized “hidden champions.”

Pascal: ‘As I often say, we’ve only seen the tip of the iceberg. The real transformation won’t be limited to the big Chinese brands that many already recognize—it will extend to medium-sized and even smaller companies taking the risk to enter Europe.’

Looking in the crystal ball…

Looking ahead, Pascal acknowledged the uncertainty due to US-Europe tensions but believes Europe is recognising new opportunities in China, with business interests influencing political engagement. He anticipated Europe seeking partnerships globally and finding alignment with China, particularly as the world shifts toward a multipolar system. 

Despite existing challenges, both Ting and Pascal remain optimistic about future opportunities.